The One Where Wilinofsky’s Silence Does The Talking – PokerStars.com


James Hartigan: This hand comes from European
Poker Tour Berlin in 2011. After nearly 4 days of play, the talkative Ben Wilinofsky
is in a commanding position as chip leader, then this infamous clash with Joep van den
Bijgaart plays out. James: So Geoffrey Hakim is going to open
with a raise from the cut off to 65,000 with queen-jack suited. Wilinofsky has got aces
again! William Reynolds: Well he’s on the button.
No one believes the button 3 bet but he is going to slow play and just call. James: And Andrulis has mucked the small
blind, ace-9 suited for Joep van den Bijgaart in the big blind. Any chance he squeezes? William: With the suited ace and the odds
he’s getting in the pot, he’s probably going to call but it wouldn’t be a bad spot with
Ben just calling on the button. [Player Talk]
James: Maybe alarm bells are ringing but Ben didn’t 3 bet. He didn’t know he had a
call button. William: Maybe he just wanted to see a
flop. James: And what a flop! Ace-9-deuce with
2 clubs, top set for Wilinofsky, top 2 pair for Van Den Bijgaart and the flush draw for
Geoffrey Hakim. He had the pre flop betting lead, it’s been checked to him.
William: Disastrous flop for everybody but Wilinofksy – a Hollywood poker writer
couldn’t have scripted this cooler any better. James: 93,000. William: Considering he has the board completely
crushed, I like a flat call. It conceals the strength of his hand and it allows for opponents
to make mistakes. [Player Talk]
James: He is going to raise, he sticks a 100,000 on top. So what does Joep do with
top two? William: Pristine opportunity to re-raise.
He is out of position, he can’t just flat call. He has to raise the price of admission. Show is about to get expensive. James: So he 3 bets to 530,000. He stuck
in about a third of his stack. William: Now Hakim can’t call it all off
with the flush draw. [Player Talk].
James: When Wilinofksy gets a count, he may well think that Joep van den Bijgaart
has committed himself to this pot. William: And for that reason he may stick
him all in to risk no clubs. [Player Talk]
James: He has shoved on Van Den Bijgaart William: He looks disgusted. I’d be happy.
James: Having committed a third of his chips, he’s not meant to pass a hand this
strong. William: He has top 2 on a board where
it’s very difficult for any hand to have him beat. I would already be eliminated from the
tournament by now. James: I’m in the same boat. When the chips
were going to cross the line, the cards would have gone on their back and I would have said
NH GG. [Player Talk].
James: How do you put Wilinofksy on a set here?
William: Joep is clearly thinking Ben does not have a bluff in his range. [Player Talk].
James: He does have aces. William: He’s got aces in his range.
James: Maybe it’s because Wilinofksy just called pre flop that makes him think he does
have aces. [Player Talk]
Interesting read. [Player Talk]
Joep has picked up on the fact that Ben has gone quiet, he’s the chattiest man in poker
and suddenly he’s gone as still as a statue. He’s laid it down! That is an amazing fold. William: Van Den Bijgaart should feel extremely
proud that it’s a spot where the majority of poker players would have gone broke. James: Well if that fold amazed you, vote
now to have your say, then share it with your friends.

Posts created 2879

67 thoughts on “The One Where Wilinofsky’s Silence Does The Talking – PokerStars.com

  1. sick fold for sure but the title sums up the tell quite nicely and he went on that tell good for him… ben is a sicko but if i was him i would have thot for sure this guy flopped a set and could not fold no matter what…

  2. i like realize it 85% of the time when these things happen to me …
    so i know that i know when it happens
    and i STILL can't fold top two…

  3. the basics of poker lol? you don't need to be an expert to realise raise/folding top two on the flop to the most aggressive player at the table is terrible

  4. I would agree with you, although I guess it kinda depends on their history.

    Wilinofsky flatting a CO raise on the button p-flop, raising a c-bet on a relatively dry board and then shoving to the SB check-raise looks insanely strong, when it looks like the SB can't fold. He is aggressive, but that's still pretty crazy. I guess the SB thinks he can only really have AA, 99 or A9 and maybe expects him to flat w/ flush draws.

    Hard to know without knowing the dutch guy too well though

  5. A few years ago I think you can think about folding this, but vs a guy like ben i think you just have to get it in. Also, i don't see the point of raising if you're not gonna call the shove… If you think his only value range for getting it in is 22, 99 or AA then why raise in the first place. Makes no sense to me

  6. The only way to obtain information on the flop is to raise. Ben could easily be raising with a flush draw considering the preflop action, but once Ben goes all in, Bijgaart gets the information required to make such a demanding fold.

  7. There are several reasons to raise and one of them is to see how strong your hand is compared to the other. I make tester bets quite often.

  8. Raising to "see where you're at" is actually a very common mistake in poker, fwiw. I'm not going to get into an argument about poker play on youtube, but there should only be a few reasons you should be raising: 1) For value, 2) to bluff, 3) to set up plays on future streets, and 4) to balance your range. Raising solely for information is bad. You're always better off calling (which saves you money), and reevaluating future streets when you have more information (as the board comes down).

  9. Yeah, that's pretty bad in a vacuum. But given he is the most aggressive player at the table and flatted a raise on the button preflop, and that we don't know the history between the two or if Wilinofsky is giving off any physical tells, you just have to give him props for an epic fold.

    Without any reads though, this is a super super standard snap call.

  10. How is that a super standard snap call without any reads? It's bet, raised, you cold 3bet it, and the raiser shoves… What exactly are you putting him on for him to do that? He is really unlikely to think you are bluffing, so how do you justify this as a super super standard snap call?

  11. Simply, this is tornment, they are not deep enought that top two pair can be considered a fold. He could be all in easily with AK, AQ. This is just a sick read.

  12. Couldnt agree more. That and not thinking he can have there a bluff range. Just call and let him bluff the stack.

  13. Any combo draws, A2. Wilinofsky has something like a 5:1 chip lead over him. I would easily shove 34cc, 45cc, 9Xcc in this hand if I was Wilinofsky and never think twice about it. The stack sizes, the chance to knock him out and create a nearly unbeatable chip lead mean he's always shoving combo draws on this flop and living with the consequences.

    You have to think about the stack sizes and point in the tournament in this situation. You can't just blindly figure he's always got the nuts.

  14. It's a great fold because he was beat, which means nothing. He never could have known that. Wilinofsky could have easily had a combo draw and just figured he'd put it in and race against pretty much anything the other guy could have had. It's a bad fold because the board is so connected and so many draws exist. If it was A92 rainbow, then it would be more understandable, but given the texture, it's too likely you're folding the best hand in this spot.

  15. why can't people see that he picked up a tell on Ben and layed down because of that, arrogant bastards calling him a donk because they can't make the same fold

  16. I agree that it's a great fold, as I said, simply because he was beat. But you have to know the other players exact two cards to make that case. In his situation, there is no way he can know that he is beat without doubt.

    You're not looking at this hand objectively. You're not thinking what range of hands you can put W on. You're simply saying, "This guy has top set, obviously it's a great fold." You wouldn't know that in the other guys shoes, which is how you have to think to assess the hand.

  17. If you really think this is a world class fold simply because he stone read him to aces, you're not a very analytical poker player. Making great reads is wonderful, but the math says this is a call everyday and twice on Tuesday. It's wonderful since Wilinofsky had Aces, but you certainly wouldn't be saying how great of a play it was if he had A9, A2 or a combo draw, which are 100% in his range. Not to mention, that AA and 99 are incredibly unlikely holdings given that they be the case two cards.

  18. I agree with you. It can be justifiable with a great read in live play. Some players have deep knowledge of tells. However, I cant see this move being profitable in the long run. And on the internet it is snap call. I dont think he would shove 34 or 45 of crosse though. I'd put him on A2, 9Xcc. He cant have nines, because he would three bet them. And then there is the option of Aces. For me, it would be so incredible line that I would pay him off.

  19. So what your saying is that since he has a decent chip-lead he is likely to deliberately get into negative EV situations and try and gamble his way through? I frame it that way because he is really unlikely to fold and your gut-shot flush draws and pair and a flush draw are likely behind

  20. No, I'm saying since he has such a lead, he's willing to take a high fold equity route with a big draw that he might not otherwise do because he's not risking his tournament life. And all the combo draws I mentioned are not really ever likely to be 'behind.' They're basically flipping with everything that his opponent can have except sets, which they're still something like a 5:7 or 5:8 dog against which is not the end of the world. His range is simply too big to fold here, end of story.

  21. It's not a high fold equity route with the play preceding it. With a cold 3 bet on the flop, he really unlikely ever to get a fold. That is my point. It's not something you can justify that way. He might still do it, but it is a loosing play with the information he already has. So essentially to make a call in the end, you must be sure you're playing against a player with that specific leak in order to justify calling.

  22. Great poker players actually don't know when that "1%" is upon them. Otherwise you'd never see a pro stack off preflop with Kings against Aces. You'd never see anybody run bluffs into the nuts. This just happens to be a spot where this guy got a bad gut feeling and made the correct fold considering the holdings. But over time, it's a bad fold. If you ran this hand 1,000 times, and the guy only has aces something like 10% of the time, you lose a ton of equity by folding.

  23. I think one of the keys is he had a weird feeling from the beginning as the commentators mentioned, Wilinofsky was 3-betting a lot, so calling set of some kind of alarm. Still, a great, great fold.

  24. I don't understand the call from the button. He's the chip leader, he's 3.betting a lot, he's on the button – it's just weird to call there. But good for him, I don't think he would get as many chips.

  25. You have an interesting approach to this and you're actually right, in a long run this decision costs him a lot. But still after watching this video, I just have to say that in this particular situation he made an amazing laydown and there's not many players that would do it. You don't know what that laydown was based on. He could've read the guy through.

  26. Im not really sure i agree with the thinking here though. To say this guy has Aces 10% of the time isnt really relevant on its own, plus, i think its more than this. you have to really think about the fact that Van Den Buugart commits 1/3 of his stack, it is never a bluff, and very rarely a semi bluff. For Wilonofsky to re raise facing one player left to act, and then 4 bet jam almost knowing that VDB is never really bluffing shows insane strength. As sick as it, its AA/99/22 alot here.

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